Elizabeth Olsen thought Scarlet Witch was going to be "one of the good guys" in ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’: “Three weeks before I was sent to London, they said, 'You're our lead villain!' And I had no clue.”

Commentaires

MarvelsGrantMan1362025-10-04 22:37

Olsen:

>”I thought that I was in an ensemble cast, and I thought that I was one of the good guys. And then three weeks before I was sent to London, they said, 'You're our lead villain!' And I had no clue. And I finished filming WandaVision, I was like, 'Huh, it would've been helpful to know that,' just so I could have pulled the thread through a bit. But I think that the story told itself, and I was able to kind of massage things in Doctor Strange to hopefully tell a different story for her."

>Olsen emphasized that these larger storylines in the MCU aren't pitched to her - so each project she's in, she takes one story at a time. This is why she was in the dark about where Wanda would end up in the Doctor Strange sequel.

ICPosse82025-10-04 22:41

She should’ve realized she was a villain by the end of Wandavision alone. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Ansee2025-10-04 22:46

But the show ended with her realizing how terrible she acted because of her grief. That's what made it so good and tragic and it seemed like she went through the 5 stages and was at the acceptance point of her grief and she accepted that her actions was wrong.

And then the movie didn't continue with her story at all. It was so jarring. The post credit scene they filmed after and they weren't told what was going to happen nor the purpose of the scene. Literally did not make sense.

thesagaconts2025-10-04 22:48

Your grief doesn’t allow your to kidnap a town and torture people. Saying I’m sorry and I learned doesn’t change that she was a villain.

mothalick2025-10-04 22:51

She also concluded the season reading up on a book that corrupts everyone

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 22:53

And nowhere was she ever told that it would corrupt the reader. Too many people conflate audience knowledge with character knowledge

mothalick2025-10-04 22:56

I wouldn't expect actors to know everything about such things but I would expect them to do some research when theyre being paid millions of dollars to fill a role. Everything doesn't need spelled out

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 23:00

I mean Wanda the character. People fault her for reading the book, but Wanda was never told that it corrupts the user.

She was told there was a book of the damned that had an entire chapter on her and her prophecy, and she was terrified of her new powers and wanted to learn more so she wouldn't hurt people.

Wanda didn't know it corrupted people, and when she snapped out of it she destroyed every copy in the multiverse.

mothalick2025-10-04 23:01

Gotcha. I was responding to the original topic, that makes sense.

Jecht3152025-10-04 23:05

"Book of the Damned"

"Didn't know it corrupted people"

Uh, what?

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 23:09

That means nothing lol. That literally does not mean it corrupts you. You're assuming with your outsider knowledge lol.

Dante's inferno is a book about the circles of hell but I wouldn't assume I'd go to hell if I read it lol .

Anthrax-Smoothy2025-10-05 01:10

THANK YOU!

It drives me nuts when people are like, "Well, the Darkhold corrupts!"

1) Agents of Shield has been stated to not be canon to the MCU. Comics are also reader knowledge, not character knowledge.

2) Agatha never tells her that. She just says there's a chapter of her in the book, so it makes sense Wanda would want to read it.

3) Yes, it's called the Book of the Damned. However, even in Wicca, your spellbook is called your Book of Shadows. Witches call things edgy stuff all the time.

To me, there was no way for Wanda (or the viewers who don't/haven't read the comics) to know what was going to happen to her. So the jump from 'did bad things by accident, but is working on herself' to 'murder hobo' is huge.

cap4life522025-10-04 22:56

Yeah so they der left per on a potential path to villainy

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 22:53

Stupid take. You act like she purposefully did it. It was all aub conscious. Once she realizes she did it and that she's hurting people she ends it even at the cost of her own kids.

Majestic-Marcus2025-10-04 22:55

Nope. Once she realises she did it and that she’s hurting people she… makes the hex bigger, enslaves and tortures more people, and kicks Monica out for challenging her.

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 22:58

Wrong. The finale is when she learns she's hurting people. She is still very much in denial at this point.

"No, you feel safe, you feel happy" is literally what Wanda was saying.

She was literally having a mental breakdown and it took them begging for death to snap her out of it.

Majestic-Marcus2025-10-04 23:02

We’re not going to agree here.

I think it’s clear she knows what’s happening at least as early as kicking Monica out of the hex. Also when Agatha asks would she like her to restart the scene.

Or when the guy comes into the hex and she traps him.

Then when she leaves the hex and threatens *everyone* outside.

And when Vision accuses her and they both float into the air ready to fight.

It’s clear throughout that she knows. She may be pushing the feelings down but she knows.

LuckyLunayre2025-10-04 23:07

She doesn't know she's controlling people, she doesn't know she's hurting them, and she doesn't know how to control or undo it at first.

That's literally the point, part way through the series she starts to lose control.

The entire point of the hex is that it is autonomous, it was a world created subconsciously to protect her frail psyche. Wanda doesn't even know how she did it until near the finale.

This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. They worked with actual therapists to work on her mental breakdown and make it realistic.

This is a real thing people do, create fake realities and they are so hardcore into denial that they genuinely believe they are right. The difference is that Wanda is a reality warper and has the ability to make her delusions real.

Wanda did bad things, and she hurt people. Her mental illness is not an excuse and she needs to take responsibility. But, she is not a villain. Being a villain requires intent, which she did not have.

Majestic-Marcus2025-10-04 23:11

The show goes out of its way to blur the lines. It intends you to not be sure one way or the other. But as I said, we’re not going to agree here, my reading of the show is that she realises and doesn’t stop it sooner than you think. That’s cool.

There is no fact here.

Yes, it was started unintentionally as a mental breakdown. But the show does *not* make it clear exactly when she realises.

What it does suggest is she’s conscious enough to get tired of any threats and to be ‘villain’ enough to threaten Sword and expand the hex. And when she does expand it she is 100% aware she is taking away their freedom.

Her response to the threat is to neutralise it by removing their freedom will entirely. Explain that without her being aware.

RellenD2025-10-04 23:20

>Being a villain requires intent, which she did not have.

At the very start, yes. She definitely intends to keep it up long past knowing it isn't real and that others aren't willing participants.

RellenD2025-10-04 23:18

And you're equating snapping out of psychosis with actually healing her grief and not resenting the townspeople for being unhappy in her fantasy world.

You should really watch the scene where she leaves the town again. She is not healed, she is not redeemed and she is angry at the townspeople for looking at her with hatred after they're free.

H3li0s12012025-10-04 22:59

Wanda didn’t realize that the Hex was hurting people until Episode 9 where it was shown, she had been completely horrified by that. In Episode 6, her entire talk with Fietro was him basically reinforcing her belief that the people inside the Hex were given better lives. Monica was thrown out of the Hex because Episode 3 Wanda (who was just starting to regain her memories) saw the SWORD necklace, seeing her as a threat.

Majestic-Marcus2025-10-04 23:04

And when she left the hex and threatened Sword? When she expanded the Hex? When Vision confronted her and she went to attack him before being interrupted? When a terrified Agatha asked if she should restart the scene?

She knew a lot sooner than the last episode.

thesagaconts2025-10-04 23:09

Exactly. And if you’re an adult and you’re controlling people….you know it’s hurting them.

H3li0s12012025-10-04 23:16

That the Hex was inflicting the same emotional pain that she had been feeling when the Hex started? That it was forcing her memories/nightmares onto them? No, she didn’t, as we plainly see with the breakdown she had over that. When both Vision and Monica tried to get through to Wanda about what was happening in Episodes 5 and 7, Agatha sent in Fietro or interfered with it herself.

Do not get me wrong. What Wanda did know about in some measure is the control and she is clearly a villain of the show, which even she says in Episode 7. What truly made her one of the villains of the show is her denial, not malice or an intent to cause harm. Which is part of the talk she had with Fietro in the Halloween Episode. His dialogue reinforces her believing that people were happier inside and her state of mind in that time gets her to believe it. I mean, it’s the same state of mind that believed someone who had basically been a complete stranger was her twin, which even Agatha mocked in Episode 8 for how much self-doubt she had.

Majestic-Marcus2025-10-04 23:18

You don’t need someone to assure you you’re in the right if you don’t suspect you’re in the wrong.

She knows. That’s why Mr Boner was sent in.

Significant_News_5692025-10-04 22:53

She's not talking about Wandavision though, Wanda realized she was the villain at the end of the series and they wrapped up that storyline with her accepting and letting go, but in Multiverse of Madness they just throw that away, Elizabeth Olsen has said many times that the arc felt repetitive to her, and that she had to take it upon herself to add certain things through her acting so that it wouldn't feel as repetitive to the audience.

Ccnitro2025-10-04 22:55

Olsen's not saying she doesn't understand how people would view her as a villain, just that not knowing where the character was headed meant she couldn't add some nuance to the WV performance that maybe didn't read as a clean cut redemption arc like it ended up being

RellenD2025-10-04 23:14

How does Wandavision's ending look like a clean cut redemption arc?

AdditionalBanana95852025-10-04 23:06

It's not about ending the show with her being a hero again. She made peace with her losses and was starting a journey to better herself. Then that journey gets cut off entirely because MoM's writer wanted to keep her as a villain without at least giving us the time to see why she'd delve further into madness? It's narrative whiplash, especially since there were many who hadn't seen WandaVision and were thus confused by what she was doing in the movie.

RellenD2025-10-04 23:20

>She made peace with her losses and was starting a journey to better herself.

Where is that in the show?

Lets_Be_Kind_Bro2025-10-04 23:08

By the end of WandaVision, Wanda seemed to have faced her grief and started accepting her losses. Even though she had the Darkhold by the end, her immediate return to being the villain in Multiverse of Madness felt jarring.

It felt like they cut her growth out, and that personally makes it difficult for me to enjoy what is otherwise a visually and tonally fun film. I would have very much preferred a smoother transition with at least one project in-between the two, where Wanda was either more aligned with the heroes or was more neutral, before returning to being a villain again in DS:MOM.

Serawasneva2025-10-04 22:49

Didn’t it literally end with her reading and obviously being corrupted by the Darkhold?

Ansee2025-10-04 23:22

That was the MOM team that wrote the scene and asked them to film it for post credit in order to connect it to MOM.

So from a story stand point, WandaVision already had a full arc of her dealing with her grief. The show runner herself said that they were moving Wanda through the 5 stages. So by the end, Wanda was at acceptance. Acceptance of Vision's death acceptance of he terrible actions.

Post credit was just tacked on and wasn't part of WandaVision at all.

And Elizabeth Olsen was right, they shifted her character development backwards for MoM. And she just went through grief for a second time.

No one has a problem with her being a villain or being in the grey area. MCU team just has the habit of not telling anyone where their plots are going fearing spoilers being leaked. So then you end up with a disjointed mess.

FlyingCow3432025-10-05 00:21

True but would Elizabeth Olsen even know that, she would have done one single scene where she is just sitting in a green room kinda doing magic hands. She might not have even known it was the Darkhold or know that that was if she did.

PirateBeany2025-10-04 22:50

But the very, very end of *WandaVision* shows her snuggling up with the Darkhold, which is ominous if nothing else.

TedTheGreek_Atheos2025-10-04 23:56

Didn't it show her actually using it and she heard one of her son's calling her?

SeanO542025-10-04 22:54

It is just regression. One day you can be good place, two months later you can be spiraling.

She also had new grief about losing her boys.

SteveFrench122025-10-04 23:25

Exactly. She was at acceptance over vision but not over her sons

Muted-Character-83212025-10-04 23:55

Disagree she clearly accepted the world she made was not real and let go of Vision AND their kids

VicarLos2025-10-05 02:46

That’s because she believed she completely made up the kids until the Darkhold showed her they actually exist in a different Universe (the scene that’s the true end of *WandaVision*).

ReaperReader2025-10-04 23:31

Just because something is realistic doesn’t mean it's good storytelling.

MrNobody_02025-10-04 23:36

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad.

usagicassidy2025-10-04 23:47

But it \*was\* bad in this instance.

BeatrixBloom2025-10-04 23:53

No, you thought it was bad. Plenty of people loved it.

ReaperReader2025-10-04 23:54

Yeah sure. I don't like horror movies, because I don't like being scared. I'm well aware that says nothing about the quality of any individual horror movie.

But I do find it interesting why so many people who do generally like superhero movies, were disappointed by Wanda being evil in MoM. And why the same storytelling can succeed or fail with audiences depending on how it interacts with other storytelling choices.

If you're not interested in any sort of analysis of storytelling any deeper than "is it realistic or not" or "do I like it or not", that's fine, but some of us enjoy a more demanding analysis.

minyhumancalc2025-10-04 23:59

Oh one hand, thats realistic and if that is what they wanted to do with her character, I respect the gamble. The problem is they failed lol.

I good example of this is >!Zuko!< in ATLA. You see him start to get redeemed, then horribly regress, feel the weight of his choices, and redeem himself when once its all over. The issue is how they framed it; the horrors Wanda inflicts on Westview and half-ass her redemption at the end of the MOM make it lose all its weight. You cant terrorize and murder a ton of people, have 2 small moments of "regret" and call it good storytelling.

This is also not mentioning that the reason she regresses is the Darkhold... which is only vaguely alluded to in the movie. They didnt commit to her character, and she feels flat with tangible motivations, but in conflict with her character to that point.

UltraMoglog642025-10-05 00:15

Shame on me for never recognizing the MOM acronym until now.

3mptylord2025-10-04 22:55

99% certain there's another interview where Olsen literally says "so this is just the Wandavision character arc a second time?" and about how she did her best to give a different performance.

theoneandonlydonzo2025-10-05 07:22

yep

>It's a similar arc in Multiverse of Madness that it is in WandaVision. **There could be parallel stories being told there of dealing with grief and loss... Why, I proposed that to the writers who wrote Multiverse of Madness! I said, "Do you know what we're doing in WandaVision? Have you seen it?"** And no, they had not seen it because it wasn't finished yet. So I had to try and, I don't know, play it differently, right? I had to attack the same themes in order for it to be interesting for me, I think, and potentially for the audience. I just had to come at it from a different point of view, so it wasn't repetitive."

bfiiitz2025-10-05 09:03

Figurative and literal character assassination because Marvel Studios wasn't organized and acted without regard. Why would the writers not at least stay abreast of the show that introduces the children who supposedly drive Wanda's whole plot in the movie?

skerit2025-10-05 10:16

And we were told it was going to be completely different this time. The Disney+ series were _real_ MCU stories, not like SHIELD or Daredevil from the "Marvel Television" side.

EightBiscuit012025-10-04 22:56

You’re conveniently leaving out the part where she reads the Darkhold after all of that. Her being a villain in Multiverse of Madness is because of WandaVision’s ending

randmperson22025-10-04 23:13

The way to bridge the two of them would’ve been to show that the Scarlet Witch persona in MoM isn’t actually Wanda, but a warped version brought on by the Darkhold.

She was simply reading the Darkhold searching for Billy and Tommy after accepting responsibility for her actions in WV, and then the next time we see her she’s a homicidal maniac. It’s a bit of a leap.

BKWhitty2025-10-04 23:23

Honestly, it's pretty in-line with how the Darkhold worked when they featured it in Agents of SHIELD. It gave the reader knowledge but also made them violently obsessive toward achieving their goals.

FH-74972025-10-04 23:26

Yeah that’s great for the nerds but for general audiences who saw both it’s a fucking complete 180 of her character arc and makes no sense.

knight_in_white2025-10-04 23:39

Big dawg apparently didn’t pay attention to the movie he was watching. It’s demonstrated by another Doctor Strange that the Darkhold changes the person that reads it/ uses its power.

wonkothesane132025-10-05 00:11

That happens well after they reveal that Wanda is the villain, though. At the point in the movie where the reveal happens, there's no explanation as to *why* she's evil.

tuggernts2025-10-04 23:47

Its so weird how some of you wanna be armchair producers and still be a casual.

InteractionExtreme712025-10-04 23:57

Isn't it confirmed the maker of MoM didn't watch wandavision, since they shot at concurrently?

Pon_de2025-10-04 23:49

In MoM she literally says, “ Then it won’t be Wanda who comes for [America]. It’ll be the Scarlet Witch.” How much more of a bridge do you want?

randmperson22025-10-04 23:57

Because the way they left it in WV is that Wanda and the Scarlet Witch are one and the same: it’s who she’s always been. Wanda didn’t just accept Vision’s death and her family’s non-existence by the end of the show, she’d also embraced a side of herself she’d kept repressed since childhood.

So the bridge would’ve needed to be between that and the “I don’t care who I have to kill to get what I want” version we got in MoM. If they had leaned more into the fact that Wanda wasn’t in control of her actions while pursuing America, that would’ve helped. But instead, it’s made to seem like she knew what she was doing the entire time and only grew to regret those actions once her boys were scared of her.

ReaperReader2025-10-04 23:43

That's fundamentally dissatisfying, though. Why have a character go through all that personal development only to just unwind it by evil magic?

EightBiscuit012025-10-04 23:44

I’m not saying it was a good narrative choice. I’m just pointing out that WandaVision is the reason Wanda is the way she is in Multiverse of Madness

ReaperReader2025-10-05 00:00

The OP already knew that though, they explicitly referred to the postcredit scene.

kelly_the_human2025-10-04 23:06

Did they even explain on how she got a hold of the Darkhold? I can't remember.

RellenD2025-10-04 23:21

Yeah, Agatha had it and told her about it.

kelly_the_human2025-10-04 23:23

Right. Thank you.

uncreativemind20992025-10-04 23:11

Did you not see the ending with her reading the darkhold?

Ansee2025-10-04 23:14

That was added after because the MOM team asked them to add it as a post credit scene. That had nothing to do with Jac's intention for WandaVision.

LA_Alfa2025-10-04 23:13

While I like MoM, it does feel a bit like the 2 hour version of Wandavision, where we spend a lot of time in the anger stage.

Randhanded2025-10-04 23:33

Well, the reason for that is the director didn’t actually watch Wandavision. Makes me confused why we’re supposed to watch these TV shows if the movie directors don’t even do it.

Edit: apparently the actual reason is that they filmed them out of order. No wonder the brand went into the toilet after endgame.

N8CCRG2025-10-05 00:52

And the reason for that is because filming for MoM started in November of 2020, and WandaVision wasn't released until January through March of 2021.

It's wild all of the people in here who don't know how time works.

Randhanded2025-10-05 01:32

Do you think that makes it better? Because in my opinion that just makes it worse. Instead of one director being lazy it’s entire studio who doesn’t care about the products that they make

Ansee2025-10-05 02:04

Actually, I think WandaVision started filming before the pandemic. They had to pause because of it and picked it back up when filming was allowed to resume. But the whole thing was done filming before they started filming MoM.

There was very poor communication between the teams. But Obviously, the MoM team knew that they were doing a WandaVision show. So it really was on them to carry the thread, or communicate their intent. The only thing they did was ask the WV team to film a post credit scene. They did not tell the WV team anything about MoM. That's a huge fail on those in charge of the IP.

abellapa2025-10-04 23:40

The show ended with her using the book of evil

Sea-Strike-17582025-10-04 23:42

Thats not how it works. You don't just get redemtion after doing monsterous things because you realized they were monsterous. Vader is still not redeemed or a good guy at the end of Jedi. Saving his son and making the right choice after many many bad ones does not undo them or redeem a villain.

hemareddit2025-10-05 02:07

Yeah it’s not like the Kingpin where he thought he was a good guy until the last episode when he realizes he’s the Ill Intent and embraces all the terrible things he had done.

If they wanted Wanda to be a villain in MoM early on, then they should have had her do the same at the end of WandaVision, have her say to Agatha or Monica something like “you know what, fuck these people, I will gladly mind rape them to have a family again, my only regret is the Hex didn’t work and my family can’t survive outside, but the Obviously Evil Magic Book is going to help me get what I want.”

pennygirl1082025-10-04 22:49

I don’t see how she can intentionally mentally enslave Agatha with a smirk on her face at the end of wandavision, and still not understand she was the bad guy. That’s not even all she did over the course of the story, it’s just the clinching moment. If anything where Wanda goes next in multiverse of madness is the natural progression for her character.

messesz2025-10-04 23:24

Yeah, cos Agatha was such a lovely kind woman, so helpful, not violent at all.

What should she have done? Do you want a whack job witch, who's murdered many people hunting after you?

Also enslave, Agatha wasn't enslaved, she didn't have to serve anyone, she just was forced to play the very role she picked for herself.

pennygirl1082025-10-04 23:32

It wasn’t Wanda’s place to punish Agatha. Sword was there and could have handled a powerless regular women. Wanda wanted to personally subjugate and torment Agatha because she is vengeful and sadistic. Yes Agatha was enslaved. Wanda took control of her own mind from her and actually taunted her about it before hand to maximize Agatha’s fear.

To your point, it was not even an effective way to neutralize Agatha because she was able to escape, and when she did she immediately jumped back into old tricks and took Billy along for the ride. So Wanda’s cruel punishment was also ineffective. Unless that was what Wanda hoped would happen.

FKDotFitzgerald2025-10-04 22:51

Ehh I felt like the show ended with a redemption direction and a sense of shame for what she’d done. I was surprised they leaned back in with DS:MoM

elenuvien12025-10-04 22:57

the last we've seen of her in wandavision was when she was reading the darkhold, which meant no mater how much shame she felt, she was wiling to do everything to get her kids back even if it was using something like the book.

FKDotFitzgerald2025-10-04 22:58

That’s a good point. Maybe I was just optimistic.

hyzus2025-10-04 23:02

No one that knew what the darkhold was, was surprised though. It was only jarring because they didn't fully explain the darkhold to the non informed

FKDotFitzgerald2025-10-04 23:04

I mean I’m “informed” and definitely knew what the Darkhold is from years of comics, Agents of SHIELD, etc. but still didn’t see it as outright confirming she’d be a villain. Like I said in another comment, I was optimistic about her since the series finale had a redemptive theme until the Darkhold scene.

hyzus2025-10-04 23:09

Did it though? She effectively enslaved Agatha with a look of glee on her face.

I agree she learned some lessons but she definitely did not come out of wandavision looking like a remotely good person

FKDotFitzgerald2025-10-04 23:10

Right. I thought that the lessons learned were the beginning of a larger redemption. That’s what I’m saying. She obviously royally fucked up but I didn’t think she’d continue to backslide after learning those lessons.

RellenD2025-10-04 23:24

>No one that knew what the darkhold was, was surprised though.

I don't think knowing what the darkhold was is even necessary. She comes out of a psychosis and is met with hatred for what she did during it. She's told by Monica that they'll never know what she gave up.

So she wanders off into isolation with fresh trauma from losing her love a second time and her family on top that, and nursing a grudge against the people of the town for not being happy in her delusion.

Like, all of that is in the show regardless of the darkhold's corruption.

Miserable-Theory-7462025-10-04 22:51

Not gonna lie, I didn't think she was going to be the villain in Dr Strange until she decloaked the orchard.

Yes, I'm dumb.

Notimetowrite762025-10-04 23:47

I was as well, but her nightmare about the kids was my realization moment.

cap4life522025-10-04 22:56

Yeah true

m8_is_me2025-10-04 23:39

braindead comment

she committed harm but came to realize it, accepting that her kids weren't hers and that forcing reality to fit her expectation was harming others

and then went "nah im gonna harm others to get not-my-kids"

jopzko2025-10-04 23:51

The discourse here about that was so annoying. "Its called character development"

treebeardtower2025-10-05 02:12

I don’t remember much but wasn’t it just a quick after credits scene of her >!in the mountains somewhere and her astral self is reading the darkhold!<? Most casual viewers won’t really know what that book is unless they watched AoS and I think one other marvel show/movie mentions its corrupting nature.

electrorazor2025-10-05 02:33

I mean only the post credit scene suggests that, she prolly didn't know how the post credit scene would look at the time

Illustrious-Okra-5242025-10-05 03:20

That is just not the story that was told in that show

graveybrains2025-10-04 22:54

It probably worked out better with her not knowing, made her seem much more *reasonable.*

CodeN3gaTiV32025-10-05 00:09

In an interview on the assembled episode for doctor strange 2, the writer says he rewrote the whole script when covid happened bc they couldn't film right away. She was supposed to turn at the end not be the antagonist from the jump

PM_ME_A_STEAM_GIFT2025-10-05 02:00

What was the original villain and story?

geek_of_nature2025-10-05 02:17

I remember seeing rumours that it was going to be Nightmare, with Matt Smith's name being thrown about as a potential actor to play him.

SummonerSausage2025-10-05 04:27

I think one of the first posters was literally "Nightmare is Coming" or something like that.

scottysnacktimee2025-10-05 05:06

Anyone have those poster examples?

SummonerSausage2025-10-05 05:22

I've been looking since I made the post, and I'm sure I remember one.

SummonerSausage2025-10-05 05:24

[Here.](https://imgur.com/a/l8PhmOF) Luckily I had sent it to a friend when the poster dropped, so i just had to find it in my messages.

Current-Bowl-1432025-10-05 05:59

Great work! I found a [source from back then](/r/marvelstudios/comments/cgpxyi/i_am_extremely_hyped_for_this_movie_for_two) as well

Unhappy-Database-2732025-10-05 10:23

Are you sure that was real? At least one of those pictures of Wanda is literally just her Infinity War poster edited. I'm pretty sure the other image is her Endgame poster.

jk0212025-10-05 05:43

I would love to see Matt Smith play a villain. I only know him as the Doctor.

Affectionate_Crow3272025-10-05 05:59

I mean

Morbius...

Labrynth112025-10-05 06:39

It's not a superhero movie but he's the antagonist in Last Night in Soho

peon472025-10-05 13:04

House of the Dragon. He's a bit villain*ish*. Antiheroic, perhaps.

namynuff2025-10-05 07:53

Oh dang, I didn't know that. That would have been so sick.

Hyperbolicalpaca2025-10-05 09:41

If I had a nickel for every for each time Matt smith was rumoured to play a villain before someone else took over the film and took it in a different direction, I’d have two

Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it’s happened twice

Cause he was rumoured to be playing the villain in the film which would become the rise of skywalker, until JJ abrams took over and made it palpatine

geek_of_nature2025-10-05 10:19

Wasn't just rumoured, he confirmed in an interview that he was in talks for that before everything changed.

Lwsrocks2025-10-05 12:15

I heard a rumor (earlier today oddly enough lol) that they first asked Ian McDiarmid to come back as Palpatine, he said no, so then they reached out to Matt Smith to play a reworked younger looking "original" Palpatine (or something like that, I may be mangling the idea by paraphrasing) in the same role. Hearing that another actor was going to do it was what made Ian McDiarmid finally agree.

duxdude4182025-10-05 16:23

You’re partially correct.

McDiarmid didn’t say no. Rise of Skywalker had a subplot involving Palpatine clones. Rey’s biological father ended up being one and it was said that Matt Smith would play him (I believe they even filmed scenes that got cut). The reason they cast younger is because the clone would not have aged to the same extent that Palpatine had.

MonoPodding2025-10-05 05:37

I'm beginning to think these writers & show-runners have been using Covid as a crutch and making excuses.

How the heck does Covid determine a whole movies story? Please someone explain it to me because almost every movie that's been reviewed negatively, they've blamed the failure on it.

NightlyWinter19992025-10-05 07:11

You're right they use covid as excuse

ItsBreadTime2025-10-05 07:44

COVID made my peepee small. It was massive before COVID hit.

RandyTheFool2025-10-05 08:34

>How the heck does Covid determine a whole movies story?

Okay, clearly you aren’t getting it, so let me elaborate.

It’s *because of* **COVID**. See?

![gif](giphy|HiR2vHwG8m6DoDXQHp|downsized)

DefNotAShark2025-10-05 09:25

I can’t speak to the specifics of this movie, but a few things in general come to mind.

One is that a movie is super complex logistically and that covid did a real number on scheduling talent and locations, which might require rewrites to accommodate.

What might have been more relevant here is that Marvel was smack in their “pumping out as much shit as we can” phase and covid forcing them to slow down gave them a chance to reassess their scripts and, with nothing else to do, make changes. If I recall right, the writer was not given much time at all to get this script done but then covid happened and he had more time to go back over it? Not 100% sure I’m remembering that right. He did some interviews about it at some point.

Lastly Raimi came on really really late in the process and wanted it all ripped up and redone his way. He worked with the writer to retool everything and get the script changed significantly. I believe this was where Wanda became the primary villain? No idea if Raimi’s late involvement is linked to covid in any way (or if it was only bc of the original director dropping out) but I know it really fucked with the production of MoM.

Far-Obligation40552025-10-05 14:32

>She was supposed to turn at the end not be the antagonist from the jump

This would have been great.
The biggest issue people had with MoM was the switch from the end of WandaVision (where she started to come to terms with her grief) to the beginning of MoM.

We know its largely because of Wanda's corruption from the Darkhold, but the jump is disconcerting because we don't see it happen.

If MoM had been focused on another villain while gradually increasing the evil influence on Wanda, and Dr. Strange getting increasingly suspicious something was wrong with her, I think that would have made a much more compelling film.

I still enjoyed MoM, but it had a couple issues.

FewWatermelonlesson02025-10-04 22:40

The Marvel secrecy shit stopped being cute after Endgame.

Give your actors the tools to give the best performance possible, stop worrying about whether Reddit finds out about the cameo from Glup Shitto #12.

silverBruise_322025-10-04 22:42

Exactly. They're actively hobbling their performers. That's beyond unprofessional

zmkpr02025-10-04 22:51

I don't think it was even secrecy. They clearly developed both projects without the other in mind. Then they slapped on a post-credits scene to connect them.

Jet-Let46062025-10-04 22:57

They did originally but the plans changed due to the change in directors and writers for Dr Strange.

Derrickson was originally going to MoM with Nightmare as the villain with Dr Strange and Scarlet Witch working together and also exploring the death of Dr Strange's sister. Then he had "creative differences" with Marvel and walked out.

Then Raimi was brought in and Waldron re wrote the script from the ground up. Waldron has said it was his idea to make Wanda the villain. Neither he nor Raimi watched WandaVision prior.

Fuckedaroundoutfound2025-10-04 23:11

This is why MoM was a shit show. Raimi butchered it because he doesn’t care for the continuity at all

Ragnarok_6192025-10-04 23:19

Don't let the three Raimi fans see this.

funkofanatic992025-10-04 23:36

I love Raimi… as a horror director. I will gladly admit he botched MoM

Ragnarok_6192025-10-04 23:37

Don't let the 3 raimi fans see this. I have been at war with them since the leak concept art

frenkzors2025-10-05 00:08

How did Raimi butcher it when it was the script that fridged Wanda? The visuals were actually the only redeeming quality of the movie, since the storyline was so shit lol.

Illustrious-Okra-5242025-10-05 03:24

They could have continued the redemption ending of WV. Instead they wrote a story like the show didn’t exist at all

theoneandonlydonzo2025-10-05 08:10

waldron and raimi came up with the new story together after covid offered them an opportunity to rewrite the whole movie, he didn't just get the script flopped on his desk lol

> Waldron recently revealed to Vanity Fair that, in February 2020, Feige contacted him just before the production start of Loki, saying "they were going in a different direction on Doctor Strange.” This was shortly after Derrickson's exit from the sequel, at a time in which it was set to begin filming in May 2020. With such a tight deadline, Waldron recalled, "How do we just make a movie in two months?”

> A few weeks later, "COVID quickly descended upon us," pushing the production start date back to November 2020 and leaving plenty of time for Waldron and Sam Raimi to hash out the multiverse-heavy script. "So I got to spend my 2020 on Zooms with Sam Raimi. Not too bad.” ***Most surprisingly, Waldron confirmed that he and Raimi rewrote the sequel's script "from scratch" throughout much of 2020. The pandemic allowed the duo roughly nine months to create the new story together before production commenced in London.***

ggg7302025-10-05 01:11

Wandavision was released in January 2021. MoM began filmin in 2020. How was he supposed to know if no one told him the continuity. Also he had nothing to do with the continuity since he didn't write the script.

ckal092025-10-05 03:05

If Marvel cared about that particular continuity then they would’ve told Raimi and Waldron.

That it appears they didn’t should be all you need to understand.

ggg7302025-10-05 03:08

This exactly. I may just be a Raimi apologist but I think he did the best with what he got and in a vacuum MoM would be a pretty good movie.

CaptHayfever2025-10-05 01:15

Raimi didn't write the script.

N8CCRG2025-10-05 01:02

> Neither he nor Raimi watched WandaVision prior.

It's worth noting, this wasn't some decision of "we refuse to watch it." They literally had to begin filming MoM immediately after they finished filming WandaVision, several months before it was finished and WandaVision even aired.

Illustrious-Okra-5242025-10-05 03:23

Every time I see this story written it seems dumber than the last time

mothalick2025-10-04 22:52

If you filmed Wandavision and didnt realize you were a villain I'm not sure what to tell you

black_metronome2025-10-04 22:52

Marvel Studios is so sloppy now.

TerminatorReborn2025-10-04 23:00

Yep. A lot of actors have a process that takes a good while. 2-3 weeks prep is phoning it in on rom coms territory

PurposeLess312025-10-04 23:09

As if her performance was bad in the movie bro, y'all be complaining about issues that don't exist

Responsible_Egg75192025-10-04 23:19

Her performance was very good *in spite* of this

_Levitated_Shield_2025-10-04 23:34

It's like when people whined about the Nick Fury cgi scene in Far From Home *only after* finding out it was a cgi scene. 💀

_Levitated_Shield_2025-10-04 23:33

>stop worrying about whether Reddit finds out about the cameo from Glup Shitto #12.

They... didn't though. They pretty much literally showed everyone Prof X in the second trailer.

Cool_Peach41132025-10-05 00:02

It’s been the overall theme recently though. Multiverse of Madness, No Way Home & Deadpool 3 all relied on cameos to draw people in and they have less re-watchability because of it.

Babyyougotastew44222025-10-05 01:39

James Gunn understands this. He actually talks to to his actors.

Scmods052025-10-04 22:42

How did she not have a script? What on earth is this insanity.

devoid01012025-10-04 22:43

Loved it. Her performance was powerful. Even as a villain, she had righteous motivation, to be with the children she was seeing in the multiverse with her new powers. And we got to see Wanda beat Wanda, to reinforce her duality as an anti-hero. Brilliant IMO.

Regijack2025-10-04 22:57

Elizabeth Olsen carried MOM

Suisse_Chalet2025-10-04 23:11

That’s the problem though it wasn’t a dr strange movie of course she carried her own movie

FerrusManlyManus2025-10-05 02:01

She is a great actress and she made it work, even though the jump from WandaVision MoM wasn’t written well, hell it wasn’t written at all. It just happened.

Rising-Jay2025-10-04 22:44

Maybe in a revised version of the Derrickson & Cargil draft where Nightmare was around maybe lol

KelVarnsen_20232025-10-04 22:45

How would she be one of the good guys in DS after what went down in Wandavision? The kind of trauma she was going through in the show doesn't really seem like something you just get over. Especially not by sitting in a cabin by yourself with a possessed book.

TheOnlyGaming32025-10-04 22:52

theres a video all about the scrapped storylines of doctor strange 2

zmkpr02025-10-04 22:57

That cabin scene was added later, probably after she found out she’d be the villain in Multiverse of Madness. During WandaVision filming, the cast probably didn’t know about those plans for her in MOM.

Jet-Let46062025-10-04 22:58

Not the first time she was on the wrong side then later tried to redeem herself.

Jorgesarrada2025-10-04 22:52

Watching the movie back when it launched I thought it was out of her character to put her as villain. The message I got from watching WandaVision is that she went through grief and was processing it. Finding the book would only giver her more powers and she would be the most important hero of the MCU. I was shocked during the movie session. I still don’t like it to this day, despite liking other aspects of the movie

theoneandonlydonzo2025-10-05 08:27

you got the right message from the show

>“The end of this show was always about acceptance,” Schaeffer said. “From the very beginning, it was about the stages of grief. So was acceptance of her loss, her trauma.” The series took a deep look at Wanda’s trauma, elements of the character’s life which had long been suppressed. In the end, she lost control of her emotions and power and created a new Vision after losing her beloved robot husband in Avengers: Infinity War, only to realize she could not justify this move when it means taking control of other people’s lives. As a result, the emotional farewell was imminent.

myychair2025-10-04 22:53

So she didn’t read the script before she was sent to the filming location? Lol

Horoika2025-10-04 23:02

Or it wasn't sent to her until she was on set

Many questions abound

pedroktp2025-10-04 23:04

You think they sent her one and she chose not to read or marvel was constantly rewriting everything?

lk792025-10-04 22:57

Elizabeth when, just before starting filming, she finds out she’s the villain…..

![gif](giphy|YPsxi5NevgmzhqeUk7|downsized)

Adorable_Ad_34782025-10-04 22:57

I still think DS2 should have been Wanda and Strange vs Nightmare/Mordo (same actor, same way Benedict played Dormammu).

Slowly, across the entire film, Wanda becomes more corrupted by the Darkhold. And once Mordo/Nightmare is defeated and America is safe, Wanda snaps and tries to kill America to get her power so the end of Act 3 is Strange vs Wanda.

A SLOW buildup to villainy instead of "she got corrupted offscreen by this book".

V2Blast2025-10-05 00:36

That slow buildup over an additional movie would have made so much more sense.

vim_deezel2025-10-05 05:17

Nightmare would have been great.

Bruhmangoddman2025-10-04 22:58

The idea was great, the execution was good, but Lord, the communication in the production was SHITE!

npete2025-10-04 23:02

That was the main reason I didn’t care for Dr.S2. It’s fine that she is troubled or flawed but she came out of WV clearly in control of her magic and herself. The whole of WV was her getting control and Dr.S2 has her immediately lose it. What was WV for then?

cloditheclod2025-10-04 23:04

The more i learn about the production of this movie the more i understand why it is the way it is

rachael_mcb2025-10-04 23:05

Doesn't it still work that she was darkholded into thinking she was right? She's the villain to everyone except herself.

E-Normus-Titz2025-10-04 23:09

Not the best choice tbh. I liked the original rumors that Strange was going to teach her how to control her magic. Not what...we got.

pkjoan2025-10-04 23:15

This is why she wasn't happy with what they did with her character. She thinks the villain phase was already over in WV

lottolser2025-10-05 00:25

Idle how she couldve thought that when the ending of WV literally had her using the dark hold.

cobaltaureus2025-10-05 00:32

Did you like ignore the “I’m killing my family to release these people from the unethical hold I’ve only just now realized I have on them?” Like if she was gonna be evil they could’ve just kept the hex

Flat-Jeweler-68492025-10-05 02:08

You mean the events that happened before she literally used a book called the dark hold.

Yes.

Also they replied villain, not evil. The two aren't necessarily the same when you add in the third wheel of magical corruption. Thats why they showed Wanda having a conscious enough to release Westview. They wanted a villian, but one with internal conflict but also with a path of redemption.

Like, ngl the entire end scene of WV was already showing signs of regression. It was literally showing Wanda living a double life once again, just isolated by herself with no one to help as she looked through one of the worst possible books.

____mynameis____2025-10-05 07:43

Dark holds effects weren't explored in main MCU. Avg audience isn't gonna expect an evil Wanda just after a 15 sec clip at the end of WV.

N8CCRG2025-10-05 00:57

> she wasn't happy with what they did with her character.

People need to stop repeating this. She has never said that.

SharpshootinTearaway2025-10-05 01:12

There has been a lot of misinformation and exaggeration about how Olsen feels about her role.

Like people spreading the rumor that she no longer wants to have anything to do with Marvel and the Scarlet Witch, when she attended the Los Angeles Comic Con last weekend with Paul Bettany and they will both show up again at the San Antonio Spacecon for a special panel about the History of the Vision and the Scarlet Witch's 50 years of romance.

Weird way to be mad at Marvel and not want to associate with the character, I'd say...

tenehemia2025-10-05 02:09

Similar to Scarlett Johansson. After the debacle with her getting screwed on Black Widow money people have kept repeating that she hates Marvel now and wants nothing to do with them. Meanwhile she was an executive producer on Thunderbolts.

whatshisface18922025-10-05 03:33

SJ's executive producer credit was likely required for any further adaption of characters from the Black Widow movie. It's a financial thing, not a collaboration thing. She likely did no work on that movie.

The fact that she hasn't worked on a single Disney movie since Black Widow is telling.

Thomas_JCG2025-10-05 01:24

Comic book Wanda flips on her alignment at the drop of an hat, one minute she is fine and then the next she "No more mutants" the entire universe. On that point *WandaVision* and *Multiverse of Madness* were pretty accurate portrayals.

Illustrious-Okra-5242025-10-05 03:23

Bendis retcons are not examples of appropriate storytelling. And I like Bendis more than most

EnkiiMuto2025-10-05 03:38

I remember when we saw the trailers showing the two wandas, and we'd see "our" Wanda meeting a version of her stuck on the hex and trying to console her.

It would have been interesting to see the other one become a villain.

Yvaelle2025-10-05 07:20

And she's right, WV did the exact same villain arc better in every way. I'd call MOM a cheap imitation but it wasn't cheap.

mrfonsocr2025-10-05 12:20

Everybody did. They basically replayed the entire wannavision character arc in the movie with no real need for it…

Nobah_Dee2025-10-04 23:17

I'll always be a little sour they made her the main villain for MoM instead of another otherworldly threat like Dormammu.

Clarinetist1232025-10-04 23:24

I feel like I'm the only one who expected Wanda to have some sort of protection against the Darkhold's influence at the end of her show, especially since it contained a whole chapter about her and how powerful she was prophecized to be. I was under the impression that hearing her kids' voices calling for help had to do with their souls still being alive in that world, not a hint to the start of the book's corruption. If they still had to go the corrupted-Wanda route, I think it would've been better to see it over time, maybe leaving her as a future antagonist at the end of MoM.

Anthrax-Smoothy2025-10-05 01:16

I like this take. You'd think the Scarlet Witch, the person who has a whole chapter dedicated to them, would be immune to the influence. As if the book *belonged* to her, or something.

And the kids calling out to her definitely seemed much less evil.

yuei22025-10-05 04:46

The way the MCU has done it the darkhold was specifically made to corrupt her, why would you assume she has immunity to it??? The darkhold was a transcript of a temple literally dedicated to converting her into the scarlet witch.

That’s WHY there is a chapter on her it’s all a big 5D chess game. Chapter on her leads Agatha to tell Wanda about it, Wanda desiring to learn more about herself is drawn to the book, book corrupts and manipulates her and in these machinations she loses it and has to go to the source. She arrives at the temple and literally sees this place exists for her conversion into the ruler of the multiverse. Foolishly she believes she is rejecting the destiny inscribed when in fact she is in fact walking right into.

Once she realizes this was its plan/purpose she destroyed every single version of the darkhold in the multiverse AND the temple.

theoneandonlydonzo2025-10-05 08:15

>If they still had to go the corrupted-Wanda route, I think it would've been better to see it over time, maybe leaving her as a future antagonist at the end of MoM.

yeah but why should they do that and let someone else have fun with full villain wanda, when they can just skip to that right now and do it themselves

source: the writer of the movie

> “All of WandaVision, we get to see her go bad, as the best villain ever, the Scarlet Witch. [...] We knew that we wanted Wanda to be in it. I think originally, there was a version where Wanda was maybe gonna turn bad at the end. That was a big change that I made and had a strong perspective on. Making her a villain from the get-go. It was always like, 'Well, that'll happen in an Avengers movie or something.' My perspective was, 'Why are we letting some other movie get the best villain ever?'” - Michael Waldron, Marvel's Assembled episode about DS:MOM

TheJack0fDiamonds2025-10-06 13:42

I thought she was meant to be like the ancient one, using dark sourced powers/spells for good and her true triumph is not letting the book take her because after having dealt with so much shit since her appearance to wandavision, and also being thee scarlet witch that she’s be the sole person able to use the book without getting corrupted like agatha/838 strange.

They made a big deal about her problem being knowledge not power, and her having a chapter in the book, for nothing. Her ascending as the scarlet witch made no difference - she fell for the book just like everyone else.

I stand by the belief and opinion that DS2 was gravely uninspired for having used her the way it did.

DmitriMendeleyev2025-10-04 23:25

I wish people had the power to veto shit like this and not, you know, at the mfkin UN!

Ragnarok_6192025-10-04 23:26

Multiverse of Magic had all the setup and hype to be a great movie. Hell, its first weekend gross was similar to an Avengers movie, clearly showing fans were really excited to see a "Doctor Strange" movie.

Then came the brakes. Wanda's character regression, the entire movie's focus on her instead of the titular character, next to no Multiverse setup, awfully writing, and the cheesy out of place horror elements of Sam Raimi, which were popular two decades ago. It was a cluaterfuck.

I still attribute MoM the start of the MCU Decline, as the audience lost a lot of faith in Marvel product in that movie. I remember explaining my casual friends, who were put off by the jarring pacing (they watched Wandavision before it, so were confused).

FaustAndFriends2025-10-04 23:54

Dr. Strange truly was a guy who just kinda showed up to his own movie as far as MoM was concerned lol

ZachRyder2025-10-05 05:37

Whose entire character arc is resolved with him confessing his love to a complete stranger he just met because the film didn't have enough time to squeeze in character development for the characters from Dr Strange 1.

Secret_Bet_21262025-10-05 08:58

And she looks awkward & uncomfortable asf [while he does it](https://64.media.tumblr.com/159c55692534b3eaf8a58b50205172c0/0e077151f1128179-ba/s500x750/b46e958924c2cd2d02655fea2b047277ded754f9.gifv)

And after hearing all that, her only response is telling him to face his fears, aka "get a life, dude."

Also despite the poor GIF quality, you see her [sadly shaking her head at him.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/45bf9555c3b463cd4d1bc719f7ceb20d/0e077151f1128179-78/s500x750/274e462310bd34d47f240854359687da5170415b.gifv)

Damn. Both versions of this woman are beyond over him.

Also, now that I really rewatched this scene, [Christine really huffed at him when he says he loves her.
](https://youtu.be/htcuMd9Zkck?si=bEH17Susa1iTV37q)

Any-Transition952025-10-05 03:04

"and the cheesy out of place horror elements of Sam Raimi"

Am I crazy? I thought those were the best bits of the movie visually. A bunch of my folks who were already sick of the Marvel "formula" at the time found it extremely refreshing and enjoyed MoM more than they expected because of it. It didn't save the movie from its writing, but horror Wanda made the movie fun to watch.

Idk why you would pick MoM as the start of the decline, when people were already burned out from the whe charade of D+ shows and movies like Eternals that came out a year before MoM. The cracks started before this movie and people lost faith long before that.

I find it hilarious that people rate this movie in the same tier as Quantumania, or Love & Thunder. How is it even remotely in the same ballpark? Quantumania was visually uninspiring and bland story overall, Love & Thunder was just utter garbage.

Smart_Peach10612025-10-05 06:19

>I find it hilarious that people rate this movie in the same tier as Quantumania, or Love & Thunder. How is it even remotely in the same ballpark? Quantumania was visually uninspiring and bland story overall, Love & Thunder was just utter garbage.

Why?

As far I’m concerned there is NOTHING good about Multiverse of Madness, it is a bad movie through and through with little to no redeeming qualities, it adds nothing to the MCU.

It doesn’t expand on Strange’s lore, it regressed and character assassinated Wanda, it barely delves into the multiverse at all, it’s just lame

The fight scenes? Are shit and unimaginative, it’s just Wanda doing whatever the plot demands and strange running away. The most creative fight was the music fight and it’s just 2 Dr Strange’s standing and shooting stuff at each other.

The plot? Dogshit, Wanda wants to kidnap her alt kids because she’s nuts and they skipped over her corruption, and Strange has to stop her is essentially the plot.

Half the movie is just filler nonsense to show Wanda’s power when they get to 838. There’s literally a scene where they just come across a random memory tv to exposition their backstories at the audience ffs, what a well crafted narrative lol.

The characters are awful.

Wanda’s character assassinated into a 1-dimensional shallow nut who people only say is a good villain because it’s Wanda. She has no depth in this movie and her motivations make no sense and they use the Darkhold as a cop out excuse to hand wave it.

They could have had any random sorceror lr wizard be the villain and it would have made as much sense as Wanda due to the Darkhold, they could have had Mordo steal the Darkhold off Wanda and he could have been the main villain trying to kill Dr Strange across the multiverse and it would barely change the film.

Strange is useless and gets given the most half assed arc in existence that doesn’t even really track as we’ve seen Strange ‘pass the knife’ multiple times, both figuratively and literally.

Most the supporting cast are dumbasses.

America Chavez is barely even a character, in fact neither is Christine for that matter as she’s essentially a plot device in Strange’s one sided love plot.

Wong’s turned into a dumbass, the sorcerer supreme that caves over 4 people when Wanda’s murdered literally nearly a hundred? WOW. He just completely invalidates that one wizards sacrifice as well.

The Illuminati are just filler roles to show Wanda’s power, they add nothing to the movie.

What’s worse is what does this movie add to the MCU? Makes Wanda into a nutter so she could have a future redemption arc? Something WandaVision already did but Infinitely better?

Quantumania on the other hand is just a mediocre and boring movie with some stupid moments but it at least tries to be fun. It doesn’t character assassinate anyone, the supporting cast with the exception of Janet aren’t dumbasses.

Ant-man 1v1 Kang, the Hank Pym and Ant’s riding in like Gandalf at helms deep moment, The army of Scott’s uniting over Cassie to get the multi-versal engine, the final battle in general was pretty solid.

Giant Man charging down Kang’s city was more epic than anything Dr Strange did in MoM.

I can safely say that imo Quantumania has some good moments in a crappy movie that MoM doesn’t have.

MoM is just crap through and through. It’s the only MCU movie that I outright hate and have zero desire to watch again.

Burgoonius2025-10-04 23:43

Honestly she was the best part of that movie for me

Silo-Joe2025-10-05 00:29

And they tricked her again in Marvel Zombies :)

Adventurous_Coach7312025-10-05 00:35

I didn’t pay attention to any of the promo of this movie, so I didn’t even know she was the villain till I saw it.

DJfunkyPuddle2025-10-05 00:47

Ironically not the *worst* way to approach it; Wanda did think she was doing the right thing (for her) and wouldn't be acting with villainous intent.

Cantomic662025-10-05 00:50

She shouldn’t have been the main villain.

ShadesOfTheDead2025-10-05 01:05

Lore should have been the villain.

ohmeohmyelliejean2025-10-05 15:06

It infuriates me no end that they could have had basically the exact same movie but just made Lore the villain and had our Wanda literally fighting her dark side alongside Strange and it would have been miles better. Lore could have even teamed up with Sinister Strange because their motivations are basically the same! Wanda and America could have bonded over their parallel griefs (America lost her moms and Wanda lost her sons) and motivated Wanda to protect her from her variant.

Babyyougotastew44222025-10-05 01:37

Why do they hate their actors so much?

xplodia2025-10-05 01:39

Let's drop the build up from the first movie and have Wanda the enemy. Mickey so hate leaving PG13, they fires Scott Derrickson for pitching Dr. Strange 2 true horror movie.

ChaoticCaptain1772025-10-05 01:49

That's what I thought too, imagine my surprise when I heard Wanda was the villain in MoM

Portatort2025-10-05 02:12

Clearly they don’t treat the cast as collaborators part of the essential creative processes

At minimum tell her with more time so she can prepare for the performance accordingly

3 weeks is long enough but longer would be better, or did they only finalise that decision 3 weeks out?

Any-Transition952025-10-05 03:14

Olsen did say in an interview that the script was still being rewritten every morning as they were still filming, and they would have no idea what to expect.

rnnd2025-10-05 17:59

From the stories I've heard of Ironman, they were writing the script as they go. I think it worked so well for Ironman that it basically became the blueprint.

darthcaedusiiii2025-10-05 02:24

They made her Dark Phoenix.

prosthetic_memory2025-10-05 02:40

Narrator: Yes, the audience could tell

Earthwick2025-10-05 02:41

Well of course she did marvel made stupid mistakes after stupid mistakes during those times ruining one of their most beloved characters towards the top of that list.

Illustrious-Okra-5242025-10-05 03:18

This movie is indefensible

Morthedubi2025-10-05 03:21

I think they her dirty since wandavision

MasterWinston2025-10-05 03:36

People keep on denying that this movie did damage to the brand but Wanda was one of the most popular characters heading out of Endgame. She should’ve been one of the pillars of the post Endgame MCU. There’s clearly some weird stuff going on behind the scenes

Boh-and-Arrow2025-10-05 05:09

Ugh I am so tired of this conversation. The fact that there is this much discourse whenever DS2 is brought up is enough to prove to me that the story was fundamentally flawed and we would all be better off if the movie were just deleted.

solehan5116012025-10-05 16:25

I do wish the same. That one has completely damaged the reputation of Wanda, to the point where the hatred and resentment towards the character got worse and worse over the past years.

jrtasoli2025-10-05 12:55

Honestly fuck this movie and fuck the people who made it. They absolutely demolished her character.

Unusual-Papaya-47962025-10-05 18:15

The Scarlet Witch in WandaVision and Dr Strange 2 are basically two separate characters. Marvel Studios really fucked up when they decided not to communicate the events of WandaVision to writers of the Multiverse of Madness. And honestly that was the beginning of the MCU decline in quality and interest for me.